I added an extra page so as not to make the last comic a spoiler for new readers.
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February 6th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
why would that be a spoiler?
February 6th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
He’s still a weenie for passing out during the delivery
February 6th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Tina’s final appearance is quite sad. She’s a really sympathetic character, I found myself wanting her to pull through even though it was pretty evident it was coming. It makes quite the statement.
February 6th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Because they’d see that Maria dies as soon as they loaded the main page. Now the Epilogue shows, instead.
February 6th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
What? Noo Noo!
February 6th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
“Maria never woke up” is a pretty big one. ^^; There’s a lot of conclusions you could make from the last page (Maria is at home, they split up, ect.)
February 6th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Oh my! I’m in shock, both for Maria and Tina. Honestly, this takes my breath away.
February 6th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
NO NO NO
February 7th, 2010 at 12:51 am
I seriously want to cry right now. Why does it have to end??
February 7th, 2010 at 3:51 am
What was wrong with the mom? Just overly emotional?
February 7th, 2010 at 3:54 am
Ok. I have to have the book now so I can go back and really read into anything. I loved it. Most beautiful comic on the internet by far and I look forward to much more!
February 7th, 2010 at 4:46 am
Thank you Rene. This 8s sad and beautiful.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:38 am
If you don’t get the spoiler, go read the whole thing again from the beginning.
February 7th, 2010 at 9:14 am
Oh, goodness. I feel so sad, because I just found this comic. Not a week later, it ends. It was terribly sad, and I actually didn’t see Maria’s death coming. But Tina’s, yeah I did. In any case, you’ve reminded me that in a good story, sometimes people have to die. Which I’ve been struggling with myself as a writer.
February 7th, 2010 at 10:07 am
speechless.
two things leave me floored: first thing reading “the end” in my anders loves maria RSS reader. Second was reading maria didn’t wake up.
don’t know how to quite process that.
February 7th, 2010 at 11:05 am
I honestly have no idea what on earth to say
reading that completely floored me
but it’s also so real
February 7th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
I think the reason people can connect with your comic is because it’s from the heart.
Nothing can replace the honesty of what you’ve captured in this whole series. For me it was the panel with Anders all on his own with his baby, saying nothing. The white outline in the next panel. You should be proud of yourself for dealing with such things with brilliant sensitivity.
You couldn’t have connected more with that feeling of desperation and being alone than you have.
Michael
x
February 7th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
How I describe your webcomic on my links page: “reading this comic, demonstrating how the need for control can destroy relationships and lives, feels like having your heart torn out by the hands of laughing children.”
Congratulations on your accomplishment so ambitious and so understated.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Only upon a second viewing did I notice Tina killed herself.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:42 am
The last panel really got me. It just made it so beautifull and evocotive and tied everything together. I am a bit teary still thinking about it. Thank you Rene so much, you’re art and story telling are amazing.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:54 am
I cannot believe I used the wrong “you’re.” That just shows how upset I still am.
February 8th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
wow… just wow… well done. it was a journey for us all
February 8th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
That hit me like a freight train
February 8th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Bravo Rene.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
I’ve been reading Anders loves Maria for years now, sadly this is the first comment I have ever made.
I had been waiting for the entire ending to happen with anticipation. Sadly to say..it’s strange but..I did predict to myself that Maria would die during the birth. It was just a guess, and now I feel kinda humbled..
I wish to say that this was one of the most beautiful webcomics I have ever read..and I wish to say congratulations Rene, and thank you for all you have done.
~G
February 8th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
I kind of saw MAria’s death coming from the other page but its still sad. As a new mom I know how terrified my husband was when I was in labour. Poor Anders. And poor baby Maria.
February 9th, 2010 at 12:14 am
@alexandra, etc.
maybe i’m just upset at the abrupt ending of an interesting comic, but maria dying is not “so real.” MMR (maternal mortality ratio) is a pretty well-studied factor of health care – for sweden it’s about 5. that’s 5 mothers dying from complications of childbirth for every 100,000 live births. that’s 5 thousandths of a percent. you are 16 times more likely to be struck by lightning.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:19 am
Good point johnny d, if it only happens to a very small amount of people, it’s not real at all.
This was a fantastic comic, and I knew I was going to miss it, but now I’m realising that I’m going to miss Maria too, not because she’s gone from a comic that I loved, but because of her death and leaving the rest of its world.
Thank you.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:26 am
The feeling of this comic ending is almost the same as suddenly losing a friend who was ill. You know it’ll end. You even know when it’ll end. But it still takes you by surprise and fills you with shock and utter sadness when it does.
Throughout this amazing story, you get so close to the characters. You laugh with them, you cry with them. And the almost light-headed dizziness while reading the ending… I had this frantic calmness as I was reading it. The transition from Anders standing over baby Maria to the white outline of it just really shows the emptiness. That suckerpunch of the situation trying to grab hold and sink in.
I’ve been reading ALM for a long time, since about the beginning, and I can honestly say that I’ve NEVER gotten as deeply rooted in any comic as I have yours.
You should be very, very, VERY proud of yourself for what you have achieved here.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
@ johnny d- that was exactly the first thing i thought of- i mean come on, complications in childbirth? that’s what killed her?
February 9th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
@atcote
you seem to have missed the point. it certainly happens, it just doesn’t happen out of the blue to perfectly healthy mothers that have normal births. it also doesn’t happen and then the doctor pokes his head in the door and says “sorry, the mother died.”
like i said MMR is a vital factor for health care systems; it is considered a failure on the part of the hospital and doctors. a whole investigation would be done as to what happened and why.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
@rene
don’t get me wrong, i have enjoyed the comic. it was occasionally hard to follow with the various levels of flashback when the reader is restricted to a relatively intermittent release schedule and the difficulty of paging around and rereading in a webcomic (i’d certainly be interested in a book to better follow the nuances); but it was a beautiful ride with interesting characters and a heart-felt story.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Oh.
I’ve been waiting for the end of this comic, checking regularly.
It was beautiful.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
standing ovation, well done.
I would love to be informed if a book is published so that I may purchase it as soon as it comes out.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
@johnny d
hush your mouth. there is no need for you pushing strict rules of reality onto a beautiful work of fiction.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:23 am
Honestly the most beautiful webcomic I’ve ever read. I’m so sad it has to end, but better this than continuing on until your readers become apathetic.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:10 am
As probably many other readers I’ve never actually commented on yours, or any of the other countless web comics I’ve read. When it has come to web comics I normally go with light hearted and silly ones, just a little something to read now and again but I followed a link to yours via questionable content quite a while ago now.
I instantly became addicted to your drawing style and story line, it’s beautifully done, and I have followed ALM through all your rough posting schedule problems and the like and am glad I did.
I honestly cried when I read this comic, even the one after this. I adored your characters and became quite attached to Maria in particular. I had slight hindsight regarding Tina, just a slight guess really but when it came to Anders and Maria I honestly second guessed that it would be the baby that died.
So I’m posting this little rant just to let you know that your art and work was very much appreciated and I must say, the song of your friends fitted this comic perfectly.
Thank you again for all your hard work!
February 10th, 2010 at 3:24 am
I….just want to say I’ve followed the comic from very, very near the beginning…
And…….
M-M-MAKE MY TEARS STOPPPP!! D’: );
February 10th, 2010 at 3:56 am
@ johnny d et al:
It’s indeed an unlikely thing to have happen, but isn’t most literature built around a series of unlikely events? Coleridge said literature requires a willing suspension of disbelief. It’s NOT the real world, so the rules don’t apply. You have to stick pretty close, but not exactly.
How do we know that the doctor didn’t say more in the interim between the initial delivery of the news and the epilogue? how do we know there wasn’t an inquiry? Maybe Maria had an underlying medical condition. The nature of narrative storytelling gives the author (and well done, Rene, well done indeed) the freedom to show as much or as little needed to have impact. I prefer to imagine Anders’ reaction in full, and those of all the others involved. You might not. Write your own stories.
This is my only comment for the story, and I, too have criticisms. I do think, though that there is much more to recommend this story than condemn it. I’ve told everyone here around me in Canada that this is worth reading. I hope you publish a book. Nerd I may be, but I want to put this on my shelf, and show my students where you can end up if you start on the web.
Congratulations on a terrific story.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:03 am
Sadly, I’m with Johnny D.
Death in childbirth does happen, but it’s fantastically unlikely, and it’s so convenient for this particular story that it doesn’t feel real. With Maria dead, no one has to work on any relationship or decide who gets the baby and when – it’s all very neat, very simplistic. The double-whammy of the two women dying in the last comic actually made my husband burst out laughing, not crying. “It’s like a tragic opera!” was his comment. Too much pathos kicked him out of the story world.
Rene, you mentioned that you’re not sure, having grown as a writer, that if you were starting fresh today you would do it the same way. I think that’s a very wise thing to say. Your writing has gotten amazing.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:49 am
I honestly can not believe I haven’t commented before now but I love this comic. It really gave me something to look forward to, and I’ll miss it.
Thank you for the art. It was amazing.
I sure hope you have another project coming up!
February 10th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Do y’all complain about the implausibility of Spider-Man and Batman this much?
There’s a story of a GI visiting Picasso who told him he couldn’t enjoy his art because it wasn’t true to life. Picasso supposedly asked the GI for a picture of his girlfriend and asked him, “Is she really as small as this?”
Religions are like languages in that they are representational. Words are not interchangeable with what they are meant to represent. All authentic religions refer to their own deadness, from the use of the koan to the commandment against idolatry. Religions that do not refer to their own deadness are cults. How about we give the comic portraying people with googley eyes and twig arms and legs some slack for its improbabilities that still fall within the realm of possibility?
February 11th, 2010 at 1:32 am
@Keri, John Serroul, and Mike Leung
i never said that fictional comics had to be realistic. my comments agree with your statements, pointed at other commenters that had said the comic was “so real.”
that said, rules apply to the world that you have created. when superman flies it is acceptable because there is a back story explaining how this is possible; it isn’t “real” but it is the world dc has created and they’ve explained it. from all appearances, rene has set this comic in the “real world,” so we expect people and events to occur as they would in our own world. if this was set in 17th century sweden, i wouldn’t bat an eye at a mother dying from birth complications.
the old “how do we know x didn’t happen just because it’s not in the story” excuse is a thin one. it’s narrative fiction, and what is not said, for all intents an purposes, does not happen. if rene had included some comic with a doctor’s visit indicating there was a problem with the pregnancy, it would have happened, but without it, it didn’t. take my other example – would my complaint seem silly if anders wheeled maria and baby out of the hospital and the last panel showed her and the baby getting instantly killed by a lightning bolt? if an impossible event occurs with no precedent indicating it’s not impossible, there’s a problem.
i think perhaps allie hit the root of my issue with this ending. rene makes a poignant statement about life, but the way she does it just seems contrived.
February 11th, 2010 at 2:31 am
Perhaps “so real” was referring to the “poignant statement” you yourself refer to and aren’t disagreeing with, and the association was established casually. Are you closed to all casual expression from all discussions, just this one, or some middle-ground thereof?
February 11th, 2010 at 2:44 am
RE: The plausibility of Maria’s death –
The fact that she felt numb and her heart rate was dropping were obviously indications that something was wrong. Anesthesia is a difficult process and is known to cause death on occasion (hence anesthesiologists being amongst the most highly-paid doctors — due to the risk and likelihood of a lawsuit). So the anesthesia is also a definite factor that could contribute to Maria’s death. Basically, it is fairly realistic that someone under the knife, on drugs, and already described as reacting unusually to the meds (with a dropping heart rate!) should pass away.
RE: The comic itself –
Thanks. I really enjoyed reading this. I especially liked seeing Anders with the baby at the end. This is no longer something he can run away from — it’s become terribly real and 100% his responsibility. This new burden redeems his otherwise terribly ugly qualities. (Not to imply that babies are solely burdens, obviously, but it’s easy to be light-hearted when the task is shared. Now he is truly responsible for a new life.)
I just hope he’s a good daddy
February 11th, 2010 at 6:21 am
really speechless…. I don’t know what to say, my husband and I started reading this webcomic when I was waiting for our son (he´s 1 year and 4 months now), now, we reed this ending (no I work in a call center), my husband always said that Maria reminded him of me… and it reflexts one of biggest fears when our baby boy was born, It had to be a ceasarean.
this ending, that frame of Anders and the baby alone was just heart breaking, and you can not avoid keep thinking on the “Maria never woke up” statement. And also the baby sounds when he is changing her, and then silence… just, marvelous.
sorry if my english is not good, not my mother language, and also, never took any grammar lesson so… hard to write XD
keep up the good work, I’ll like to keep on tracking you for new work ^-^
see ya!
February 11th, 2010 at 6:30 am
D:
NOOOOOOOOOOES!!!
February 11th, 2010 at 6:50 am
@Mike Leung
perhaps, and perhaps not. others indicated they were “shocked,” “floored,” and many were on the verge of, if not actually, crying at the death of maria (and tina). another related how scared her husband was when she was giving birth.
and i’m saying, in the real world, for expecting mothers in a situation like maria’s (as far as we’re told), this does not happen; so for me this feels contrived in order to make a point instead of making the point via a more natural story progression.
are you closed to all subjective viewpoints counter to your own, just this one, or some middle-ground thereof? …sorry, my fingers would not allow me not to type that.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
What I am is fascinated at your insistence of the invulnerability of pregnant women.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
@Lily
that is simply not the case anymore. deaths resulting from anesthesia are even lower than the MMR in most developed countries, usually below 1 in 100,000, and epidurals are on the safer side, as it is a local anesthetic. usually if a cesarean birth is required, general anesthic is not even needed, especially as in maria’s case where the anesthetic has such strong affects (which is not at all unusual). it is also not unusual for changes in heart rate of either the mother or the baby to cause a (perceived) need for cesarean birth – it is done specifically to lower the chances for complications.
@Mike Leung
i’ll assume you’re making hyperbole as opposed to ignoring what i’m saying. but all i have to base it on is international statistics and 9 years of experience.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Johnny, it is otherwise a complete mystery to me what makes what you say urgent to say at the volume you are saying it. Are cricket-chirps the background-sounds of maternity wards where you are? How do childbirth numbers compare to the readership numbers of ALM? What else am I supposed to think, other than my account of what I’m observing?
February 11th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
i make a subjective observation, people disagree, and i provide the facts on which my observation was based. that’s the way i know how to have a civilized discussion.
apparently my assumption was wrong, though, so i will repeat: “it certainly happens, it just doesn’t happen out of the blue to perfectly healthy mothers that have normal [or nearly-normal] births. it also doesn’t happen and then the doctor pokes his head in the door and says ’sorry, the mother died.’”
February 11th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Johnny, to “What I am is fascinated at your insistence of the invulnerability of pregnant women” you responded “i’ll assume you’re making hyperbole” … and then you go ahead and give what seems to be facts why pregnant women are invulnerable. Why should I think anything else when everything you say is reconcilable with my account of what I’m observing?
February 11th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
in·vul·ner·a·ble (?n-v?l’n?r-?-b?l) adj.
1. Immune to attack; impregnable.
2. Impossible to damage, injure, or wound.
“it [maternal mortality] certainly happens, it just doesn’t happen out of the blue to perfectly healthy mothers that have normal births. it also doesn’t happen and then the doctor pokes his head in the door and says ’sorry, the mother died.’”
where do you get “all pregnant women everywhere are completely immune to any injury to their person” out of that? once again, my point is that the situation laid out (from what we’re told) in this and the previous few comics does not happen in the real world, and because of this it feels contrived. you’re argument appears to be, “How about we give the comic… some slack for its improbabilities that still fall within the realm of possibility.” i’ll ask a previous question again, then: “would my complaint seem silly if anders wheeled maria and baby out of the hospital and the last panel showed her and the baby getting instantly killed by a lightning bolt?”
February 12th, 2010 at 1:17 am
I get it from your inability to let go the issue of how invulnerable pregnant women are. Thank you for the definition of invulnerability. That is how you are acting pregnant women are, not me.
February 12th, 2010 at 10:08 am
@johnny d- I just read the entire comic in one go, so its pretty fresh in my memory. Maria was diagnosed with low placenta very early on, and there was also the random fainting episode in her childhood. So it wasn’t entirely random.
I am reminded of a friend whose sister was having a routine check of her reproductive system because she was having fertility problems. Something went horribly wrong with the anesthetic and while she didn’t die, she suffered such severe brain damage that she’s essentially a four year old child. While statistically rare, these tragedies happen.
I know there were a lot of characters but I wish we had been able to learn a little more about Tina because despite her problems I was surprised at her decision. But overall I loved this.
February 12th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
I actually cried.
I can’t believe it but I actually cried.
You’re such a fantastic writer and artist; being able to move a hard hearted person like me to tears.
I love this story so much.
thank you for writing it.
February 12th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
@christina
thanks, i did not recall that that was said. at the risk of being reprimanded for knowing what i’m talking about again, i’ll give a quick explanation. low placenta, or “placenta previa,” occasionally happens, usually early in pregnancy, requiring bedrest and/or restriction from intercourse. it would be monitored throughout the pregnancy. about 95% of cases right themselves by the third trimester as the placenta grows; for those that do not, a cesarean is usually scheduled. it does add some complications, but it is not usually anything to worry about by itself.
February 12th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
It’s amazing how much tragedy and emotion you have created in a simple webcomic. Renee, thank you for sharing your diligence and envy-inspiring creativity and talent with the internet.
February 13th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Since Rene has been open to revision in the past, there seems to only be advantages to saying I agree I think the 5 panels after “You’re probably hungry” would be better displaying Anders still vulnerable like he is, and with the midwife’s dialogue distributed across panels, but with him and the midwife displayed full figure. Cropping the figures in comics portrays a pacing of time and experience that it makes sense the midwife would try to pull someone out of when delivering bad news.
February 13th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
@ johnny d
Um, why can’t we all just compliment Rene on the things she has done well with this comic?
I see no civilized reason to pick her work apart, especially at the end of her comic. She was just trying to make a point. Nobody ever said she was Shakespeare.
@ Rene
Great job. I enjoyed this story very much and think you have a great amount of talent. I’ve seen how your abilities have grown through the progression of the story and I hope you continue on and make us more to enjoy!
February 14th, 2010 at 7:55 am
I’m crying. I’m crying so much.
Rene, your work is so beautiful. It’s awful to see it go.
February 14th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
I can’t believe all the controversy over Maria dying in birth, and not one complaint about Anders sniffing dirty diapers.
Johnny D, what are the statistics on new fathers who turn out to be smiling dirty diaper sniffers?
February 15th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
God damn you, Rene Engstrom.
February 15th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
@Johnny D-
If I remember, Maria does have some bleeding at the beginning after Anders is beat up, and she is told it is “not anything to worry about yet”, how do you know this was not a complication during the birthing process? Meanwhile, while death from childbirth and anesthesia is low, is STILL HAPPENS. I lost a cousin due to a reaction to anesthetics, so for me, this was indeed very “real”. Stop being a troll.
Rene, thank you for a wonderful story. I truly hope you do publish it as a book as I would love to add it to my collection.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:55 am
@Sooz
I think it’s a little out of hand to call Johnny a troll. I can’t say I didn’t think the same thing he did when I first read this comic. I think it’s reasonable.
I also agree with something said earlier about this death ending being very “clean”. I was told once in a creative writing class that while the death of a character may be considered by the writer as messy and dramatic, it’s often in reality far cleaner cut then leaving the life standing. a death is a very classic end that can often seem contrived, and it’s undoubtedly a lot simpler then if Maria had lived.
THAT BEING SAID: beautiful comic. Well written, and attached do some of the most moving art I’ve ever seen in a web comic. I’m very happy to have been with you all this time on this journey. Thank you so much.
February 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I guess Johnny D has a point. I loved ALM as much as everyone else here, I’ve checked every day to see if there was a new update and I too almost cried at the end. But fact is that, even tough this is a very good comic and a well written story, there are always things that can be improved, even in the best comics. For me, there are some things I would like to have had explained, some things I would have wanted deepened out. In that view I can see why it is a little odd that Maria has a bleeding and is not forced to slow things down or get bed rest, especially since her history (had an abortion -I guess-, low placenta, the fact that she is so tiny). Pregnant woman are so well-monitored (especially here in Eastern European countries where we have social security and good health benefits) that it is at least a little strange that she ‘dies out of the blue’. I don’t understand why
That being said, I would like to thank Rene for making such a beautiful comic, for creating characters that are so real you begin to consider them as your friends and for telling a story that I think everyone of us can relate to. I really enjoyed it, I’m sorry it had to end and I hope you will begin a new project soon.
Greets and love!
February 17th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Wow, I really didn’t see that coming, i’m not sure why. I’m actually crying too
Beautiful comic. I’m sad to see it is done.
Not sure if there is another one in the works (or already done) but hopefully there will be! You are an amazing artist and I’d love to see more!
February 17th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Yes, in Sweden it’s about five mothers in 100.000 who die as a direct consequence of childbirth. The leading cause of death is massive bleeding. This happens when the placenta doesn’t let go well (the afterbirth) and the uterus doesn’t contract as it should. Massive bleedings can ensue, and while most are still saved, through blood transfusion or hysterectomia, in a few cases it’s not what happens. These women die. Considering a bit more than a hundred thousand childbirths per year, it’s below ten women per year. And yes, most of the women who die do so due to complications that could have been predicted (bad nutrition status, concurrent severe illness such as heart disease or diabetes, etc), a few each year die unexpectedly.
Next time you’re involved in a childbirth, give a thought to those men and women who make sure it happens as rarely as it does. The natural death rate during childbirth is far, far higher.
For the comic, René, thank you. It was a pleasure to read, and in a genre I never thought I’d enjoy. =)
February 18th, 2010 at 12:00 am
So I just wanted to say I love the little pissed off face Ander’s mother’s girlfriend has on after his mom is all “AVOIDS BY READING NEWSPAPER”. It’s great.
Love the comic. I was really sad when Maria died D:
February 18th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Just read the entire thing from start to finish over the past two weeks or so.
Totally cried.
Well done Rene, and thanks a lot.
February 18th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Quoting Beth:
Maria has a bleeding and is not forced to slow things down or get bed rest,
had an abortion
low placenta
the fact that she is so tiny
—-
Also, it seems to me that there was a problem with her epidural that went unnoticed.
Again, Beth:
Pregnant woman are so well-monitored, especially here in Eastern European countries
—
I think then, she died as she lived. Neglected and overlooked, even by the men who hoped to save her.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
I am weeping like a baby my heart is broken, Rene, I am so sad this is the end. I know I should have seen it coming but my naive nature made me believe that it would end more happily!!!! Goner, you are so right, and again it breaks my heart.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Oh god. I did not see this coming at all, and now I can’t help but shed a few tears for Maria. This webcomic gets you unhealth-ingly attached to the characters.
Amazing work.
February 20th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Aww.
I can see both sides in this disagreement.
It was a touching end to the story.
On the other hand, regardless of what the probabilities were, and even with foreshadowing, it DOES feel like author fiat to just suddenly end it like that.
But either way, it’s been an amazing ride, Rene. Thank you.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Oh wow. I just got that hollow empty feeling in my chest, because my heart dropped to my stomach.
February 21st, 2010 at 7:57 am
But Johnny, can you say this was a perfectly healthy mother and a normal child birth if the mother dies? Statistics are statistics, but if a seemingly healthy mother died during a seemingly normal childbirth, does it make more sense to say “that’s impossible!” or to assume that something occurred that had escaped the notice of the attending physician? In real life one would apply Occam’s razor and assume that since an abnormal result came from an ostensibly normal situation, the normal situation must not have been as ‘normal’ as it seemed at first blush, rather than freaking out about how unrealistic that outcome was.
I mean, you can rail all you want about statistics, but the story unfolded as it did. Period. You’re making a fuss over something that is out of your control. Why? Does all drama have to conform to statistics, or are tropes and literary devices allowable in fiction?
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:47 am
Wow.
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:09 pm
@JSA
i am attempting to make the point rationally and not “freak out” about it, but perhaps the several people who agreed with me explained better “why” we’re “making a fuss” about it. but to me, because the death is statistically improbable (if not “impossible”), “this feels contrived in order to make a point instead of making the point via a more natural story progression.”
i agree with your earlier statement, though. if this were to happen “in real life” it would be assumed to be abnormal. but then the problem with the comic becomes the way in which the information was conveyed. “in real life” the doctors and nurses involved would be removed from the situation, new doctors would come in and evaluate what went wrong, a whole investigation into the history of the pregnancy would be done to see where the abnormality should have been discovered and why it was not, and then all those directly involved would be interrogated and likely either suspended or fired. that doesn’t even bring in the slew of lawsuits and other claims against doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc. that inevitably result as well.
and perhaps i’m not mentioning this so much anymore to critique rene (as i said earlier, i enjoyed the comic immensely) as much as to calm the worries of those pregnant or thinking about having children who see things like this. there is a whole system in place to make sure this “never” happens. as svempa said earlier, “give a thought to those men and women who make sure [maternal mortality] happens as rarely as it does.”
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Oh, well that’s alright then. =)
I’m not sure if I agree that it’s contrived from a dramatic standpoint. Yes the death from childbirth trope is pretty played out, but that isn’t a bad thing. As long as it draws a genuine and powerful emotional response from the viewer (and obviously the mileage on that varies here) then the use of a literary device is not unwarranted.
I see why the lack of proper hospital procedure could bug people, and it isn’t unreasonable to assume that Rene could have done some research on it (I did think it was a bit odd how that doctor delivered the news, since attendings are usually expected to have a decent bedside manner. I mean, they even teach classes on how to deliver bad news!) but perhaps all the technical aspects of the situation would have drawn focus away from the pathos of the scene, which is the point of the story and this page in particular.
Anyway, yeah, I agree with a bunch of your points. All’s well.
February 24th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Aw crap. Im gonna miss this one a lot. Like the others, I’ve been quietly following your comic for a long time and am only commenting now.
Thank you for one of the nicest and sincerest comic roller coaster ride I’ve ever had. Best wishes for your future plans Rene.
February 25th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Concerning the maternal mortality rate, its applications to this comic and the plausibility of Maria’s death.
1. Several readers have provided evidence of Maria’s former health problems and possible risks.
2. Improbability of events in reality does not imply contrived fiction, unless it can be deemed a deus ex machina.
3. There is an increased risk of maternal mortality to cesarean sections, although perhaps less so in Sweden.
Example: An unnamed friend was induced into labor, with Pitocin, on her due date. The contractions proved too strong for her and she opted for an epidural. The epidural was given too early by an enthusiastic nurse, rendering her unable to push. She had to have an emergency cesarean section, just like Maria. The baby was healthy, but the mother died within the day of bacterial infection as a result of the cesarean.
Could something similar not have happened to Maria? It is improbable, yes, but I have seen it in reality. Why, then, could it not also happen in fiction, a world with much more fluid boundaries?
The definition of contrived as an adjective is “obviously planned or forced; artificial; strained.” Forgive me if I’m being dull, but I do not see how the story’s ending falls within the parameters of that definition. Perhaps if Maria’s death solved a litany of problems that would otherwise remain unexcogitable, but I do not believe that is the case. If anything, it will cause the other characters more problems.
Back to Johnny D’s true point, calming the fears of the expecting. Infant and maternal mortality is a frightening possibility. However unlikely, it is still a reality. That being said, the best defense a woman can have against complications in childbirth is preparation – understanding the possibilities, how to prevent unwanted outcomes and how to tailor her birth experience to suit her best. Almost every single birth today is a success, thanks to advancements in science and technology. However, that may not suit everyone.
Personally, I do not think I would perform well in a hospital – they make me incredibly anxious. I plan to give birth at home with the aid of a doula. If complications arise, I can be transported to a hospital in a matter of minutes. While doctors and hospitals have saved countless lives during childbirth, they are also not always necessary. If I were at home, I know my level of fear would decrease dramatically, allowing my body to perform as it should. If I were at a hospital, I would be so nervous the entire time that my contractions would be much stronger, I would be able to push with far less ease and there might arise some complications that would not have otherwise.
My two main points are:
1. I believe the ending is perfectly acceptable.
2. Childbirth can be dangerous, but if you are prepared it becomes much safer.
February 26th, 2010 at 5:37 am
The biggest point in this argument is its Rene’s webcomic and she can end it however/ whenever she wants to.
March 1st, 2010 at 9:37 am
@Kalah, You’re entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.
@Rene- I forgot to mention how sad Maria’s life seems to me in retrospect. She was so scared right before she gave birth, and then she died…scared, and alone.
Someone else made a comment that she died as she lived: neglected by those who wished to save her. So true and sad, even if it is fictional.
March 1st, 2010 at 9:50 pm
this left me bawling.. im glad anders manned up in the end but everything he did to maria was so horrible.. i wish it couldve ended differently.. but at least he finally became a man and maria finally got let free from the stress. im amazed at how attached i was to maria and anders. i guess its because i am going through maria’s situation slightly and yeah..
very good comic<3