#262 – Wha’ t’ fuck’s ‘is problem?
Friday, July 24th, 2009It has always bothered me that I couldn’t really write out Maria’s dialect properly. She is from the far, far north of Sweden and you can totally hear it in her voice but how do you translate that? I decided to try out giving her the Northern English Yorkshire-ish accent. It really made me giggle. Hopefully you will too!
Also this is the 2nd comic I put up today so make sure to look back a few pages to make sure you haven’t missed any.
I’ll be travelling with my kids next week but hopefully I will be able to get 3 comics up next week as well. Thankfully after the 17th of August my life will be back to normal and I can update pretty much without hassle. For everyone waiting for Sketch-a-thon drawings/paintings, I will start doing those at a rapid pace then as well.
July 27th, 2009 at 1:10 am
Today is comic extravaganza time!
July 27th, 2009 at 1:16 am
I was so confused reading this, i was thinking “why does Maria sound like shes just walked out of a coal mine?” but then i read your comment and it all made sense.
really like this strip, and I’m very impressed with how you’ve got this and the last one out so quick without a downgrade in quality.
One thing. if you really want a Yorkshire accent, you need her to the word ‘the’, but instead of using ‘the’, just put a ‘t’ on the beginning of the word following it
July 27th, 2009 at 1:22 am
J–
I want those lines in norrländska too!
July 27th, 2009 at 1:32 am
Oh, and Sofi looks a bit like Joanna Rubin Dranger. One of the comic artists who drew comics inspired from attending Konstfack.
Really nice updates, Rene!
July 27th, 2009 at 1:40 am
@Stef I love JRD so hard!
July 27th, 2009 at 2:05 am
I’m an American reader here, and when I think of northern accents (other than my own in the Midwest) I think of the accent people had when I moved to northern Minnesota. They always elongated their “o”s and said “Don’cha know?” a lot. I found a YouTube video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzEeuj6Rf9k&feature=related People from the upper peninsula of Michigan (“yoopers”) have an accent very similar to that as well.
Almost everyone in the town that had lived in the area for generations had Finnish, Norwegian or Swedish immigrant families, actually!
July 27th, 2009 at 2:20 am
Yeah, I’m sorry, but… translation, please??
July 27th, 2009 at 2:49 am
Im glad I came back a second time this weekend. Lovely lovely comics.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:49 am
Ah, this one made me laugh.
I’ve gone through the whole 262 comics in the last two days, and, with the rare exception, they are all very good. I’m going to be sad when the storyline wraps up.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:54 am
Haha! I had a friend who moved from Lithuania to Sweden to the US and later back to Lithuania, and she would always joke about Northern dialect Swedish. This totally reminded me of her.
July 27th, 2009 at 2:57 am
I love the look of these last few comics with the lighting and all.
July 27th, 2009 at 3:06 am
@BarGamer: “No, not yet. I’ve applied and I’m here for the interview. They seem to be interested so we’ll see what they say. But I’m not getting my hopes up.”
July 27th, 2009 at 3:34 am
This made me giggle loads, I’ve lived in Yorkshire all my life and the thought of Marie speaking in Northern English is going to make me rethink how she talks completely!
Been loving the comic for over a year now, thank you
Dougal x
July 27th, 2009 at 3:38 am
This made me giggle loads, I’ve lived in Yorkshire all my life and the thought of Marie speaking in Northern English is going to make me rethink how she talks completely!
Been loving the comic for over a year now, thank you
Dougal x
July 27th, 2009 at 4:28 am
Maria’s face in the last panel is so adorable. Can’t get over it.
July 27th, 2009 at 4:55 am
i am thrilled that you worked out marias dialect.
northern sweden has its own language haha.
July 27th, 2009 at 7:23 am
i find it hard to read a lil lol
July 27th, 2009 at 7:45 am
I guess it is a, “welcome to the big city” kind of thing!
July 27th, 2009 at 7:58 am
Haha, I was squinting so hard trying to understand what Maria was saying, I completely tuned out my fiance trying to ask me a question for about a minute.
It was kind of jarring seeing this weird moon language come out of Maria’s mouth when up til now (in English anyway) she’s never spoken like that. Are there different words/accents used in Swedish to convey that she’s using a different dialect?
July 27th, 2009 at 8:00 am
Also in panel 7 she looked like she wandered out of a Kate Beaton comic. *thumbs up*
July 27th, 2009 at 9:06 am
This new guy’s bushy eyebrows are just too funny *LOL* it looks like he’s got two little clouds in there
July 27th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Anders seems even douchier when you realize he says dialect not accent
July 27th, 2009 at 10:15 am
*sigh*
I’m probably going to get lynched for this, but I hate the new Maria accent. Not that I hate the piece of background info that she’s from the north, but I hate the way that it’s written. It doesn’t work for me at all. It’s distracting to translate, and not only that, but I think the northern english accent is a really ugly one.
July 27th, 2009 at 10:37 am
so does maria grow out of her accent later or is it implied that she had it the whole time.
July 27th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Wow 3 new comics! Thanks Rene
Can’t wait till the next comic!! Ow and have a nice week with your kids!
July 27th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
I love the accent writing
Being from Yorkshire and Living in Belgium where 99% of english are from the south, I feel her pain!
July 27th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
As a Yorkshireman, I give this comic my blessing. Fred Trueman would be proud!
July 27th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Ah, this explains a lot. My mother is from the far north of Sweden. She told me that the people from Stockholm could tell immediately she was from the middle of nowhere. Now, thanks to this episode, I kind of get what she was talking about.
Thanks for your wonderful comic.
July 27th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
She’s had it the whole time, I believe is what Rene is saying. And this is just the first time she’s been able to type it out to show us.
For some reason, I doubt that she’s going to keep doing it that way. I get the feeling that the only reason she did it was for the line about Martin finding it humorous.
July 27th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
^ Agreed. And @ssk, from the context, I get the idea that it IS a dialect more than an accent. I mean, I don’t speak Swedish or anything. That’s just what it seems like whenever they mention it.
July 27th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
this was the last thing i read before going to bed, and i had a dream that i was trying to explain maria’s weird accent to someone and they totally didn’t get it. and then i think i talked about johan a whole lot.
good dreams, huh?
July 27th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
Sofi looks exactly like Sophie from ‘Spaced’. Hmm…
July 27th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
I’ve finally made time to read from the start & fallen in love with this story so I shall wait eagerly for new installments!
With regards to Northern English accents (I’m from the Westcountry, but have lived in t’North for a while now) they originated from the time of the Danelaw and Viking Kingdoms of the Pre-Norman period – trace the extent of the Danelaw boundaries and you’ll find a “Northern” accent, albeit with local dialect variations…
That is until you reach the far Northeast – “Geordie” accents, around Newcastle and up to the Scottish borders where the accent is a mix of Anglo-Saxon (properly, the Angles settled the Eastern coast from around the Wash upwards) and Anglo-Scandinavian. Many of the words for landscape in this area (as examples) come from Scandinavian words, e.g. Fells, Dales etc NTM place names – I think the closest modern equivalent is Norwegian, but could be proven wrong! (confusing, hey?) :s
I’m trying to place Maria’s accent as she sounds as if maybe she’s either from Cumbria(NW) or from the Durham or Middlesborough area where Yorksire meets Geordie! Mind you, the area that uses the “thee’s and tha’s” most now in Yorkshire is around Rotherham (nr Sheffield) in South Yorkshire (a somewhat derogatory nickname for the locals is a “dee-da”).
Either way, a Northern accent seems ideal for for Maria (y)
July 27th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
i found what i think is a good example. if you disagree i am sorry for miss-leading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgtiz6_uNUU
July 27th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
@ssk
Anders wasn’t being a douche at all when he said dialect. It -is- a dialect which differs from an accent.
July 28th, 2009 at 12:02 am
I thought she was putting on a front until you explained what she was doing. I hope you either leave out the accent, or make it a permanent part of her character, because bouncing in and out like that will definitely cause some confusion!
July 28th, 2009 at 1:24 am
I just would like to know the translation. lol
July 28th, 2009 at 3:10 am
No, not yet. I’ve applied and I’m here for the interview. They seem to be interested so we’ll see what they say. But I’m not getting my hopes up.
What the fuck is his problem?
July 28th, 2009 at 3:21 am
@ Lo.
*is a native Minnesooootan*
I always love Maria’s giant eyes. Even the older Maria has this child-like air about her because of those eyes… I love it!
July 28th, 2009 at 6:24 am
Haha, it reads more like Cockney than New England to me. xD
July 28th, 2009 at 6:47 am
Hah, I’m a Scot who recently was recently on exchange in Umeå, and as part of the course I took some classes in Swedish. The class was repeated twice, first telling us how to say things (So we could, say, ask where the milk was in ICA) and second “How they say it in the south”.
I also used to get the same complaints from two people I was staying with in Sweden (From really far south and really far north) and in the UK (From Scotland and England). I guess he was right to say dialect!
Great work, I love this strip!
July 28th, 2009 at 6:51 am
Ugh, I hate this. I had to read a translation of Lysistrata in 12th grade that gave the Spartans U.S. southern accents. I wanted to call the rape hotline and tell them an enduring and historic work of literature was being violated…
Anyway, what are the linguistic changes that characterize the North-Swedish accent/dialect, and couldn’t you just apply those shifts to Maria’s English dialogue?
July 28th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Maria’s accent made me think of Toki/Skwisgaar from Dethklok. I couldn’t stop laughing when I made the connection just by reading it and thinking of where all three came from.
July 28th, 2009 at 11:21 am
I imagine an accent like Tomas Holmstrom’s, the hockey player for the Detroit Red Wings.. since he is from northern Sweden.. His interviews in English seem to bring much joy to his teammates.
July 28th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I am a Brazilian living in Australia, so I often have people trying to guess where the hell I am from…
And, because English is my 2nd language, I think I don`t have a good understanding/perception about accents… In my head accents in English are divided like this:
Native English:
USA
British
Guy Richie movies (a totally different thing)
Aussie
Foringner Speaking English:
Indian
Asian
Russian (THE BEST ACCENT EVER)
Now I have to youtube for Swedish people speaking English, just to have a clue on the accent and pronunciation…
Beautifull comic strip!
July 28th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
GAH! What on earth is wrong with Anders’ hand in panel 7!?! I swear he has no thumb!
July 28th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
My wife and I lived in Lund for 3 years (very far southern Sweden). We learned how to speak Swedish and enjoyed speaking with the people around the town and university. However, when we traveled to Stockholm we learned that we really hadn’t learned Swedish at all… we had learned a mixture of RiksSvensk and Skånska !!
For you non-Swedes reading this, Skånska is a dialect – it has some of it’s own vocabulary, different pronunciation for shared words, and even some small grammatical differences. Even though the region of Skåne has been Swedish for several hundred years (since Karl X’th took his army over the frozen Oresund), the Danish influence is still felt in the dialect, some of the attitudes, and the half-joking way the locals still call it ‘occupied East Denmark”.
Speaking of dialects, when we moved to England one of the funniest things was seeing BBC news put English subtitles on the bottom of the screen when they were interviewing people from Newcastle, Yorkshire, etc.
Great comic… very powerful… you’ve got me feeling very sorry for poor little Tina.
July 28th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Hi! I really love this comic, your illustrations are beautiful, I’ve been following Anders loves Maria for months and it’s my favourite comic, among Chester 5000 XVY which’s awesome
I am from a small country in South America called Uruguay and there’s where I live, I’ve met swedish people and their accent in spanish’s very funny too, and it’s quite alike to swede’s english, like pronouncing every “s” very strongly, almost mixing it with the “sh” sound, it’s nice.
I don’t have any idea of northern sounds, i’ll have to check out on youtube, like the Vara Vänner video, swedish is really funny! My ex boyfriend used to live in Malmö when he was like 4 years old and when they came back to Uruguay they brought lots of children’s books, and his mother would read them to us (we were about 20), she was so warm and the music in swedish speaking is absolutely lovely.
Greetings from Montevideo!
July 28th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Bruce: He seems to have five fingers.
July 28th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
LOL!! Excellent, as a Yorkshireman myself, or should I say ‘me-sen’! It made me laugh so hard to read this page! Kudos!!!
@Brigitta: Lol! Yes, didn’t spot that the first time! Good eyes!
July 28th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
This guy has a very norrländsk english accent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO191nSZGPg
July 28th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
I love Maria’s deer-in-headlights stare in the last panel.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:30 am
http://www.hulu.com/watch/85769/the-colbert-report-mon-jul-27-2009 lots of swedish accents
July 29th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Hahaha. Very clever. I got it almost right away. At first I was wondering if people from oop north in Sweden talked that way but then the penny dropped.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
That’s actually a really nicely done hand and I bet Anders secretly loves how elegant his own hands are!
July 29th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
I got why her “sound” changed for this comic and liked it. Basically, for the first time, we were able to see her accent/dialect from an outsider’s point of view — Martin. Since nobody else in the comic makes a big deal of her accent/dialect, it’s typed normally when talking to them. But as soon as she opened her mouth around Martin, it’s all he could focus on.
Also, the longer she spends out of her hometown the more she’ll adapt the new language customs, so I’m sure it’ll fade some over time too, but I’m pretty sure it’s in this comic specifically because of Martin and the way he categorizes people due to how they speak.
July 30th, 2009 at 6:56 am
lol and here i thought she was speaking with a jamaican accent…-.-’
July 30th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
These flashbacks really show just how much of a pedophile some of the main characters are.
July 31st, 2009 at 2:47 am
The sissy Stockholm dialect is more recognizable than any “northern accent”. You should switch it around for the next one
July 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am
Steven,
I don’t think that anyone has been portrayed as a pedophile.
Maria was at (in many places) what is considered the age of consent and her partner Bjorn wasn’t abusive, in fact, he provided her with a fairly stable environment where she was encouraged to go to school and follow her dreams.
Not all relationships with older people are predatory or abusive in nature.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Rei,
I agree with you to some extent, but a 14-year-old child dating a 25+ year old man is certainly not a stable, happy environment. It will, statistically, in most cases result in emotional issues with relationships. This should be pretty clear in the differences between Maria and Björn, with Maria being quick to emotional outbursts and idealizing her pregnancy, while Björn is simply apathetic and drifting. She’s acting a child, while he is… Well. I don’t want to label him an “adult”, but he’s certainly not of the same emotional maturity as his girlfriend. That has shown a not-so-healthy relationship.
Though clearly Maria is too old to have the men in her life labeled “pedophiles” (ephebophile would be more technical), the point is largely moot in that older men willingly had sex with a teenager before she was fully emotionally and physically developed. What kind of judgment is that? Björn seems interested solely in sex at first, though his feelings for Maria do develop over time. I don’t think a relationship with a girl that young should be initially based on sex.
Björn clearly was interested in Maria from the start, flirting blatantly and at the first chance having sex with her. He’s been portrayed as a lecher since. Anders, however… Well. We’ve yet to see how him and Maria get together. I’m more inclined to trust his judgment, since he at least didn’t go after his former teacher’s daughter when she threw herself at him. So his hook-up with Maria might be a bit more emotionally-charged rather than sexual.
I understand that the writer/artist for this comic resides in another nation, as well as different continent, so cultural attitudes towards sex will be different. Being an American, you may consider me “repressed” and I hope that you wont… I have a healthy sex life and choose my moral leanings outside of any religious influence, with my conservative ideals only stretching so far.
Don’t get me wrong; I love this comic. It has some of the most brilliant writing I’ve yet read in characterization (I’m a writer, so I definitely appreciate that). It’s just the general apathy towards sex seems… saddening to me. I guess I could say I believe America is too conservative, while Europe is too liberal.
July 31st, 2009 at 6:55 pm
@ Steven A
Anders is less than 4 years older than Maria. That doesn’t strike me (a European) as an excessive age difference, and I believe most people in most continents would share the same view.
July 31st, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Uhm, isn’t she applying to college? Or is it a sort of an art high school?
How old would Maria be in this flashback?
July 31st, 2009 at 10:06 pm
is it just me, or is Rene not posting?
i know she’s vacationing with her children, but it seems a little strange for her to not post at all, though she said she would.
(not being bratty, just concerned.)
July 31st, 2009 at 10:15 pm
@Mari Hi!
Yes I’m vacationing with my kids. We’re having a lot of fun. I’m going to work on a strip tonight though and hopefully have it up tonight or tomorrow.
July 31st, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Great work, I like the way you’ve used Maria’s eyes to convey all those different emotions, she looks adorable in the third panel.
July 31st, 2009 at 11:36 pm
@Steven A
I don’t think there’s such an age difference between Bjorn and Maria. He’s Johan’s friend, and Johan is 5 years her senior. Lets say she’s 15 and he’s 21 when they meet.
A bit much, as far as stable relationship and maturity goes, but not in the icky range. And since she’s applying for Konstfack, which is a college level school, she’s 18 or 19 in this strip, which means they’ve been having some sort of relationship for a couple of years.
Yes, MAria is immature and Bjorn is a bit of a slacker, but given her background, at least he’s kind and supportive.
July 31st, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Marco,
You’re right. I don’t know the exact ages, but I’m pretty sure Anders is much closer to age to Maria than Björn is. That’s part of the reason their relationship doesn’t bother me, the other being we haven’t seen their initial hook-up yet.
The thing with Björn that does bother me is Maria was very much a child and “rebelled” from her brother to go see him, and without a second thought he had sex with her. That strikes me as rather strange… I know not everyone has sex with love, and that sometimes the love comes later (as it has with Björn), but the guy barely knew her, so no one can say there was an intellectual attraction to override it… Simply put, he was sexually attracted to a girl 8 years his junior that had barely entered puberty herself. To me, that’s a bit inappropriate. I question why no one said “Hey. This girl is living with an older man. Maybe we should look into it.” The laws may be different over there, but social perception should be so strikingly contrasted.
Rene Engström,
If you’re following this, I hope you understand I mean no offense. I love your comic, since it really does have the best characterization I’ve read in a long time and the way you handle the different webs of relationships between them is astounding. As a writer, I appreciate that. The art style is also unique enough to hold my eyes from page to page. I just wanted to voice a concern of mine, as well as that of a few friends, on the rather apathetic view of sex between an older man and a child. The other sex is fine with me; it’s pretty spot-on and people really fuck themselves over with cheating during fights and breaking up.
So, hope you get where I’m coming from. Keep up the good work. =D
July 31st, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Marco,
Sorry, in the last sentence of my message directed at you I meant to say “The laws may be different over there, but social perception shouldN’T be so strikingly contrasted.”
July 31st, 2009 at 11:46 pm
Greensis,
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn’t aware they were together for so long… I figured a year or so, with Maria being a prodigy of sorts and entering college early.
Please note that I don’t find their relationship inappropriate, not at all (I’m 19 and am in a relationship of sorts with a girl of 15, almost 16). What I do find inappropriate is that their relationship started purely sexually, yet no one seemed to have issue with that. If she was 16 or 17 (I believe she’s 14 when they met), that’d be fine, but she just seems to young for me to find it okay for him to have a casual hook-up with her. Again, hope that helps you understand my side and thanks for the clarification.
(Really posting a lot on this, haha)
August 1st, 2009 at 1:12 am
@ Steven A. I’m pretty sure there is only a 5 year age difference between Bjorn and Maria, and also her brother was very angry with the developing relationship. You may want to go back and re-read the archives to try and get a better outlook of it all.
I don’t know if this is what she intended for sure, but what I get out of this comic is Rene’s ability to show people’s choices through their own eyes- how events that happened to them made them who they are, to help show why and how some people behave the way they do. In other words: to show you that you should not just judge a book by it’s cover.
I’m not even going to get into why two fictional characters in an online comic hooked up. Rene would be the person to ask, or else it is open to your own personal interpretation, but I would think a 19 year old entering a relationship with a 15 year old would be able to emphasize with the situation.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:41 am
Sooz,
Yes, Maria’s brother was angry with the relationship, but I get the feeling he was more jealous than protective. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what Rene meant, but I definitely got that vibe, even if Johan may not know it himself.
As I’ve said before, the characterizations are brilliant and I really admire Rene from a writing-standpoint. I understand how relationships work more so than most people, having had sociology and psychology classes as both a hobby and study, so I don’t deny that the ones depicted in this work are anything but “real”.
I may be looking into this too much than I should, but I tend to examine characters very closely and try to explain things. To me, there is just something realistically off about the social apathy towards a man Björn’s age hooking up with Maria without anyone but her brother caring. I would understand and be okay if they had spent a fair amount of time together previously and built up at least a personality or intellectual attraction, but at first it was simply Maria rebelling and Björn wanting to get some. That should turn a few heads, unless they were hiding the relationship.
August 1st, 2009 at 2:08 am
I believe issues with age solely have to do with where you live.
Case in point, I knew a 15 year old girl when I lived in South America who was involved with a 50+ year old man. Herself, her family, his family and those around them had no problem with the relationship.
Also, fun story: My grandfather was 24 when he broke up with his fiance for my grandmother (who was 14 at the time). They married when she turned 18 and were together until they died.
August 1st, 2009 at 2:15 am
Maybe some Swedes/other Europeans could chime in on this. Steven, by “social apathy” do you mean you’re surprised that other characters in the comic (besides Johan) don’t appear to make any objections to Maria’s relationship with Bjorn? Are you expecting to see greater outcry/disapproval from others? That would definitely be the case here in the U.S. (especially in the South, where I live…unless you are Jerry Lee Lewis
) but I wonder if it’s really the case in northern Europe. I don’t have the statistics at hand but I vaguely remember having heard that teenagers in the Netherlands begin sexual relationships quite “early” (around Maria’s age) and it’s not regarded as all that strange.
I’m often squicked out by May-December relationships but I don’t find “21 and 15″ (I believe Maria had just turned 15 when she met Bjorn) all that terribly different from “19 and 15″–I’m more bothered by the “30 and 20″ or “25 and 17″ dynamics, if I can toss numbers around
I love that this comic has so much depth of characterization that it can spark conversations like this!
August 1st, 2009 at 2:18 am
You know Steven, I think you’re right in that there does seem to be a very casual attitude toward sex in the comic. However I don’t think it is necessarily that different in America than in Europe really. As an American who is in roughly the same age group as the main characters, I see a lot of this kind of behavior and drama in real life.
That’s one of the best things about this comic, it’s very true to how people really are and there are consequences to their actions.
Also…from living in a small town and knowing girls like Maria sometimes, unfortunately, people are apathetic. It’s clear from the beginning of her childhood story that her parents are fairly neglectful. Truthfully, Bjorn is providing her with a roof over her head, regular meals and he makes sure that she still attends school…she’s above the age of consent so it’s kosher in the eyes of the law…and in the eyes of the town, they probably expect her to be “no better than she’s worth”. Sometimes small rural communities can be the most apathetic and cynical places on earth.
August 1st, 2009 at 2:20 am
When Björn and Maria met, Maria was 15 and Björn was 23, so there is an 8 year difference. This is not all that uncommon, especially in rural areas in northern Sweden. There is just under a 4 year difference between Maria and Anders.
Maria is 19 right now in the story, when she is applying for Uni.
August 1st, 2009 at 4:36 am
Steven A, you are too adorable!
August 1st, 2009 at 5:30 am
G, eggnut, and Rei,
I’m liking this discussion because I’ve felt my distaste over the relationship gradually become more understanding as aspects of it have been clarified and refreshed in my memory.
I guess I have issues with sexuality and relationships because my former fiancee was raped for nearly a year by her boyfriend before me, and my sister was molested by her mother’s boyfriend. Obviously the situation between Björn and Maria is different, but when it comes to age-difference-relationships I become a bit more guarded and protective. Those two people in my life have since gone down very bad paths, and I would hate to think something similar would happen to Maria. It’s a researched fact that sex at a young age, consensual or not when with an older person can have long-term effects. It’s not at all wrong to say something did happen to Maria, considering her rather difficult relationship with Anders. Though I’m more inclined to believe it’s her own familial history, with her relationship with Björn being only a minor factor.
I just want to say, again, that I have no problem with age-difference relationships with one younger as long as it isn’t initially forged through sexuality. Adults can fuck who they want and get the love later, but for a kid that can really screw up how they handle relationships. I know it happened to my ex, my sister, and me.
Rene,
Thanks for the clarification. I felt it might be a bit more common in the area this story is set, but sociologically I don’t feel that’s an “excuse”. Rural populations aren’t psychologically different from urban populations to the degree that sexuality and relationships aren’t intricately connected. I’m glad you present Björn as eventually forming a more romantic/intellectual relationship with Maria, since otherwise I would have to wonder whether you think a purely sexual relationship like that would be healthy.
Sooz,
I take it you don’t like my incest theory? xD
August 1st, 2009 at 8:48 am
Steven, I don’t have any opinion on your incest theory- it’s that because you have taken psychology and sociology classes, you assume you “understand how relationships work more so than most people” that I find so amusing.
I spent 3 years studying sociology in college level, 2 of which also involved psychology classes as well. In fact, most people are required to take at least one of each class in Uni. Studying does not make you more knowledgeable in relationships. The fact that you stated that made me laugh so hard because it really shows just how much learning you have yet to do.
Cheers
August 1st, 2009 at 11:52 am
Sooz,
You can feel that way if you like, but I was merely giving examples of my credentials. I never suggested I was an expert, nor that the knowledge I have is incredibly “more so”, just that I wanted to get the point across that I wasn’t projecting an ignorant, pop-perception of Freudian psychology.
Anyone can say “I think so and so, psycho-babble” simply because they watched some cartoons featuring a caricature of Freud or have seen an episode of Law and Order, and I wanted to say “I have some background.”
So yeah. It amuses me more that you’re jumping to such conclusions just because I said one minor thing that wasn’t even the focus of my discussion. Not everyone on the Internet that suggests they’re a little smart is completely arrogant and conceited.
August 1st, 2009 at 9:59 pm
@ Steven A
Dude, just directly quoting you. Sorry if that direct quote I read was mis-read!
hahaha
August 1st, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Steven, can you cite some of the research you mention demonstrating that sex at a young age has “long-term effects”? I’d be particularly interested in ones that were based on European data, or any kind of cross-cultural/non-U.S. data–I find different sexual/social norms a really fascinating area of study! I think that sexual mores can differ quite a lot even within one country; if I compare, say, middle-class NYC or San Francisco to working-class rural North Carolina (where I grew up), there are some very big differences in how sexual morality is approached.
I guess I feel that this comic is a very well-done portrayal of what relationships begun at a young age *can* look like….it’s simply one story, being told by one person. It’s not, as far as I know, meant to be a polemic that teaches us how we “ought” to regard teenage sexual relationships. I don’t get the impression that Rene considers it her job to preach to us through the mouthpiece of her characters. She’s telling a story about what a particular group of characters. Maybe you have a different idea about what the function of literature should be.
August 2nd, 2009 at 2:09 am
Sooz,
A direct quote is different from context. Anyone can take a word, a sentence, a paragraph, and misinterpret it. It should have been obvious from context I wasn’t attempting to flaunt my intelligent in a conceited way and only meant to suggest I knew what I was talking about.
eggnut,
I realize that there are cultural difference between regions and nations, but it doesn’t take an intelligent mind backed with studies to know sex at a young age with an older person causes more harm than benefits.
No, I don’t feel that the purpose of literature is to have a moral or lesson, but I do feel that a writer should take responsibility for what they write and not portray something wrong without repercussions of some sort, though I’ve already seen such repercussions in the comic already so she obviously has taken some responsibility. Literature is telling a story with characters so real you can believe their story is real as well.
August 2nd, 2009 at 6:40 am
Steven,
You did say there was research backing up your claim and I find the topic really interesting–cross-cultural studies are so fascinating! Can you please cite them? Otherwise it’s just you stating your opinion and I’d be so much more interested in hearing a wider perspective
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:01 am
eggnut,
I don’t need to sit here and list research backing up what is otherwise common sense.
Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me that a relationship between a 10-15 year old child with a 30+ year old adult would not be harmful?
August 2nd, 2009 at 9:38 pm
oh gosh did I miss something? who is the 30+ year old in the comic that’s having a relationship with a 10 year old? jeez I feel really old when I realize how young most of the characters in this story are
maybe it’s time to stop counting my birthdays!
August 3rd, 2009 at 4:55 am
eggnut,
I never said there was a 30+ year old having a relationship with a 10-15 year old in this comic. I was talking in generalities, and have been this entire conversation.
August 18th, 2009 at 2:47 am
goodness. very jumpin’ here in the comments.
i just recently got caught up with comic. still lovin’ it.