#110 - Tredje Stenen Från Solen
Wednesday, February 6th, 2008Third Stone From The Sun.
Warning!
I’m not going to lie to anyone here. There is going to be sex scenes with a minor (at least for people in some countries) in tomorrows strip. I’m not going to censur anything but I think it’s fair you be warned today. I know that in some countries, material that even suggests sex with minors is illegal, including literature. So if you don’t want to see that I wouldn’t read tomorrows strip. This is the only warning you will get. 
Happy reading!
February 6th, 2008 at 4:22 am
Ohhhhhhh boy! Johan’s gonna BRING DA PAIN!!!!! (First post BITCHCAKES!)
February 6th, 2008 at 4:32 am
i don’t think i have ever fallen so in love with both a storyline and the visuals for a web comic as much as i have this one.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:01 am
At least we know Maria’s judgment has ALWAYS been crap.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:02 am
Johan is breaking my heart. Bjorn is creeping me out with that smirk on his face.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:10 am
Oh plz no =(
February 6th, 2008 at 5:10 am
Hope he hasn’t washed those fingers…
February 6th, 2008 at 5:16 am
a la beeeeestia!!!! (spanish)
nooooou she is so frikin young, she is the age of my little sister, ….oh god
……
what is he reading?
February 6th, 2008 at 5:17 am
now that I think about it…she does look like my sister !!!….. AAAAr >.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:37 am
I think Maria’s judgment is the same as any teenager’s right now, Freezey. (I’m sort of torn on her present day actions.)
February 6th, 2008 at 5:46 am
wow, this one really hits home.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:59 am
This last storyline has been one progressively louder aaaaAAAAAHHHH.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Yay! you go Maria!
Why are all you guys so down on getting laid? it’s her choice and she’ll learn whatever she learns from it, even if it takes a long time.
Who here has everything so sorted out that they live their life perfectly without fucking up or regretting things? My grandpa, on his deathbed (at 92), like many other old people, said that the only things he regretted were those that he hadn’t done.
So there, ha.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:32 am
He he. I love your grandpa Ames!
February 6th, 2008 at 6:34 am
ok it is so cute that she has this relationship with jahan and not her mom and dad
February 6th, 2008 at 6:45 am
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Then again, live and learn.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:48 am
aw I love johan more and more, but maria does have to make her own choices. honestly though after that little speech I would have been too guilt tripped to sneak out back to bjorn
February 6th, 2008 at 6:56 am
15 year olds + their own choices don’t always = the best… just sayin’
I mean, she’s going to do it no-matter what anybody tells her, that’s obvious. It’s just obviously not that smart to get used by some older guy for easy, molestery sex.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:35 am
I think the fucked up thing is that Bjorn is like old and she’s only 15…. As a person about Bjorn’s age I would never have sex or finger a 15 year old!!! I understand that young people make mistakes but older people that know better shouldn’t pray on younger people! That just isn’t cool.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:37 am
is it ok to say the “f” word? sorry if not…
February 6th, 2008 at 7:39 am
You are so sweet to ask Craig.
Of course, pretty much anything goes around here, even fingering 15 year olds.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:46 am
:-)
February 6th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Ah, Maria. Young love.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Or the finger thing.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:54 am
… yeah, this whole story arch gives me the squicks. Probably because at 13-15 I was with an older, manipulative guy and its an experience that I’ve never been able to get over completely. So reading this story arch is like… having an allergic reaction to similar things. Bjorn being older - ACHOO. Bjorn being forward - ACHOO ACHOO. Bjorn making advances - ACHOO ACHOO ACHOO. Maria ignoring people who care about her to sneak off with Bjorn — ACHOO ACHOO ACHOO ACHOO A-FUCKIN-CHOO.
D: Even if no bad comes of this, I’m hiding under my blanket till this story arch is over, peeking out occassionally. Good job wigging me out, miss. (No, sincerely, good job. It’s good writing that taps into real feelings)
February 6th, 2008 at 7:56 am
It’s not that Teen!Maria is making this choice (an understandable, if clearly wrong one), it that it looks like she hasn’t learned a thing about making sound choices (or learned to curb her impulsiveness).
Then again, we don’t yet know how the Bjorn thing went down. Could be that this worked out (sort of) so that set her on the path of listening her feelings, no matter what.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:52 am
this, people, is the price you pay for giving a crappy xmas to your kids. what a smug bastard.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:56 am
oh SHIT.
rene, your comic is now daily conversational fodder among a bunch of my friends. and since this particular storyline started, most of that conversation is my first sentence here, over and over.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:11 am
johan has no nipples!!
February 6th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Ahhh, good times sneaking out and fucking around. I totally knew she had all her clothes on! Who sleeps with the covers that high up? Just people who are going to be doing some late-night trekking to get some. Who doesn’t do this (not exactly this, but other similar or equally dumb shit)when they are young? I am still having a hard time hating on Bjorn, even though he seems to have ill intentions, even in present time… I do feel horribly for Johan though. poor guy..
February 6th, 2008 at 9:24 am
AHHH BAD DECISIONS THEATER
And, there are many reasons this is screaming Bad Decision. One, she’s fifteen, and going to sleep with someone she has literally just met that night. It’s safe to assume that this works out where they end up friends, but back then she didn’t know that, and had no idea about whether he’d have protection or STIs. Two, said person is seven or eight years older than her, and has been proven a creepy fucking bastard (evidence: touching his friend’s drunk fifteen year old sister’s crotch directly in front of him - and he was SOBER).
Before you ask, I think any older person getting into an initially sexual relationship with a very very young person is a Bad Decision. Any gender in any role, it is. And I think going off on your own to sleep with someone, in his house, when you’ve just met him, is a Very Bad Decision. Even though we can assume nothing horrible happened in this comic, an act like that itself is dangerous.
That said, having been an idiotic teenage girl, I can see exactly why she’s making this (stupid) decision. I’m just feeling a horrible feeling of dread and ickiness, because I’ve seen this before.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Oh boy…
February 6th, 2008 at 10:45 am
rl, regarding your assumption that they just had met. Remember this is Kukträsk, a very rural vilage in the Swedish taiga-belt. This implies a total population of 3000, max, and more than 100 km to the nearest villages. So the chances are not that big that this is the first time Björn looks at Maria and Maria looks at Björn.
That said, Björn should have learnt to keep his hands to himself…
February 6th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Vad ska man säga.. tonåringar *suck*
Många har nog gjort något liknande någon gång i sitt tonåtiga liv, kanske inte med någon som är så mycket äldre men ändå.
Jag känner många i allfall.
Kan bara säga att det här är så himla bra, du prickar in så rätt så alla blir så involverade!
Så det ända man kan säga är just.. tonåringar..
Som alltid du är bäst på det här! Super!
Kram
February 6th, 2008 at 10:58 am
what wins a pedobear seal of approval:
http://tinyurl.com/3bf8vd
February 6th, 2008 at 11:50 am
bjorn is creepy for going after his friend’s 15 year old sister, for sure. but it seems like the incident had a more lasting effect on bjorn than on maria bc today she appears pretty much over it while he is clearly not. also, regarding them having met before, maria asked her brother if they could go visit bjorn - it was on her suggestion.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
It’s really too bad that ‘comics on the internet’ isn’t a catchier phrase than ‘webcomics’, because these ‘comics on the internet’ have basically left most ‘webcomics’ far far behind.
Totally digging this flashback sequence.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Sandra: Alla känner någon som har varit i samma sits som Björn och Maria. Det är sååå himla vanligt. Och jag må tillägga att det är rätt så vanligt uppe i norr att typ 30 åringar giftar sig med 18-19 åringar, skaffar barn osv.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
If you look at the strip where they first went into Bjorn’s house, it’s pretty clear that Maria and Bjorn haven’t met before. Maria appears to only know Bjorn through whatever passing mention of him her brother has made.
http://anderslovesmaria.reneengstrom.com/2008/02/01/107-december-24-1995-pt-4/
February 6th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Maria has had a crush on Björn for a long time, seen him at her house and stuff. Björn has never really paid that much attention to her or been formally introduced.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Ahh, I stand corrected! The whole “oh my god you have the coolest hair” thing made me think she was reacting to it/him for the first time, when in combination with his introduction, but I guess that would just be drunken enthusiasticness on her part.
Slightly less idiotic as a decision now, but still squicky.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
… D:
D: D: D:
Young Maria reminds me of a younger me (down to the stripey sleeves) and this hits too close to home. Oof.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
awesome, you rock. Can’t wait for tomorrows comic.
Also I love your updating schedual
February 6th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Maria’s choices make sense to me because of her background. 15 years old (anyone who didn’t rebel at that age is just not normal), her parents don’t seem to be around much, she has just a brooding, angry older brother looking after her that she seems to look up to, but at the same time he’s just her old bro. Not the same thing as a dad or mom. I mean, I’d have gone after him, too. He’s the cool older guy that shows he’s physically attracted to you, skinny little 15-year-old girl. That’s all that really stands out in your head at that point. “Wow! He likes me!” You really don’t think at all about the repercussions of the situation.
On a side note, I like Maria’s looks much better when she was younger. Did she dye then, or in the present? Just curious.
February 6th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Drunk horny teenager + chance for sex = probably something like this is going to happen.
I know there’s a ridiculous double standard between boys and girls when it comes to sex, but when I was 15, if I’d been come on to by a 23-year-old, I’d have been over there in a shot. And it probably would have been a bad idea, sure, but who thinks about that (or, indeed, much of anything) when they’re 15 and horny?
February 6th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Having BEEN recently 15, I gotta say it’s not the best decision to start sexual activities at that age. I am American, so maybe it’s partially a cultural thing, but my friends who did start having sex in middle school/early high school are in a very different place than they could be. They’re very smart, it’s just they’re more interested in making kisses with boys than schoolwork (which is fine, just so long as it’s balanced, y’know?).
Random Question: I know a lot of you guys are from cold, snowy places and I have to ask: Have you been getting crazy amounts of snow? I mean, more than usual. This year, the snow has been nonstop! It snowed ALL DAY yesterday (on top of freezing rain… yuck) and today it started just as I was about to walk out the door. BOOM! Snowage. So is this just where I’m from, or is it more global?
February 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
baby girl, YOU needs to get LAAAAIIIID
February 6th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
I’ve never been in a situation like Anders or Maria (not many people around where I grew up heh )but this comic has really pulled me in - maybe the fact that my first serious relationship has recently just ended - or maybe Renee is just that good at capturing an aspect of life that many people can relate to in some way. Whichever it is, great comic and I’m definitely sticking around! (despite the fact that I just want to freaking pound Bjorn for being a real fu*ktard)
@ Kate - I’m in Tokyo and there has been TONS more snow here this year than I’ve ever seen my whole 6 years of living here. I mean serious REAL snow - it does snow in Japan but almost never in the city. This year has been really unusual..
February 6th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
jeff!…
lets have a comment chat =]
February 6th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Quoting Annabeth: ” (…) anyone who didn’t rebel at that age is just not normal (…)”
Let’s just say : I disagree. Rebellious teens are common but many are well-adjusted adult-in-becoming.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Seconded. I wasn’t insane in the membrane at 15.
I have to say that Bjorn doesn’t seem like such a creep now that he’s older, but Flashback-Bjorn is cutting it fine when it comes to pedophilia. I’d even go so far as to dub the last panel “PEDOSMILE”. Weeghhh.
February 6th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Wow.
I so thought Bjorn never got his chance at Maria, but instead it looks like he’s the one who deflowered her all those years ago!
So Maria’s run away to her ex-boyfriend/lover/bandmate and she thinks Anders is silly for worrying she’ll be having revenge sex with him? That’s practically a guarantee!
February 6th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
I wish more webcomics were like yours .. it’s so down to earth! .. in a way Just put whatever the hell you want in your comic, you’re the artist D:
February 6th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Having a little sister myself, I can understand being protective, especially with Bjorn. But I guess it’s Maria’a decision to make.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
So… Maria is a little twat.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
@ Kate, I’ve been getting tons of snow here in Utah, my mom keeps saying it’s like it was when SHE was a little girl. It snows practically every day, and there’s lots of it.
This whole arc reminds me of my 15 year old little sister too, I was unfortunately a very boring child and never snuck out or anything like that, (the worst I did was use a couple of cuss words and didn’t go straight home after school, I was a REBEL..) so I can’t relate on a personal level, but my sister is the exact opposite of me. I act just like Johan with her, and while yes, it’s ultimately her choice, I hope there isn’t a Bjorn out there waiting to meet her.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
This is really strange. The vast majority of commenters seem to be totally freaked out by this story line. I can understand that it looks like a bad idea, but I’m not sure if its much worse than any of the other mistakes a typical teenager makes.
I wonder how many of those freaking out are American readers. No offense, I’m really just wondering if it is perhaps partly a cultural thing; puritan vs. sleazy-European ethics : )
February 6th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
I’m American and generally freaked out because of my own bad experiences. The age thing doesn’t bug me. Whether age is an issue depends on the context, really. Hell, if my fiance and I had grown up in the same country, I’d have been in his bed at 15 in a flash, even if he was 10 years older. You’d have to seperate us wth a crowbar.
And also, I was one of those non-rebellious teens :
February 6th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Fnord: I am inclined to agree, and of course there are exceptions within regions of Europe and even regions within countries. In rural Sweden it is not all too uncommon for men in, say, their early 30s to marry and have children with women in their late teens. Whereas in Stockholm the average age for having your first child is well over 30 for females and it is rising every year. Looking back 25-30 years ago I doubt very much people would have raised an eyebrow over such an age difference. I find it rather fascinating and tragic that a young man such as Björn could be considered a pedophile and even jailed for a mutual relationship with a sexually mature young lady. I think some cultures are more afraid of female sexuality than others.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
… my message was once again obliterated.
“And also, I was one of those non-rebellious teens. Everyone said I was 14 going on 40.
Then again, even that didn’t keep me out of trouble. Teens will be stupid, even with the odds against them.”
February 6th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
I am with Fnord and Rene up there, being an American, I know how unholy sex supposedly is. There is totally a double standard about female sexuality, and it SUCKS. I think that kids having sex at 12 and 13 is disgusting, but fifteen is not the end of the world, you are just figuring stuff out and I think fifteen is kind of an age where barriers are lifted (for most) mentally and physically with rules and restrictions. While you may be a good little boy or girl, you are still realizing that everything your parents or older siblings do isn’t right, and isn’t always wrong. You kind of figure out a middle ground. I started dating my boyfriend when he was twenty three, and I was sixteen and although the outcome was unpredictable then, we are still together now, and things are awesome. I was also getting under the assumption that most of the people having problems with this arc were American readers. But if the “legal age” is fifteen and everyone in the area knows that, then I don’t see anything weird about it.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Rene, is it your aim to make me despise or loathe every single character in your wonderfully-written comic? If so, you’re doing a fantastic job.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Rene: I find it rather fascinating and tragic that a young man such as Björn could be considered a pedophile and even jailed for a mutual relationship with a sexually mature young lady. I think some cultures are more afraid of female sexuality than others.
I think a lot of this, aside from cultural differences, is because of the same reason Johan is being so protective of Maria. It’s pretty obvious that Bjorn is taking advantage of Maria’s state (drunk, young, impulsive, driven by hormones, not totally cognisant of the repercussions of her actions, et cetera). I know Sweden has vastly different views on casual sex and sex with minors (which I applaud them for - America is entirely too prude for its own good), but I think a lot of people feel the same way as Johan in finding that what Bjorn is doing is downright despicable. Flash forward to present setting of the comic, and it’s obvious that Bjorn is taking advantage of her state yet again.
Wait, why am I explaining your own comic for you?
February 6th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I’m Canadian, and female, and was raised to be comfortable and open with sexuality. Like Mandiiv, largish age disparities when one of the parties is a teenager freak me out partially because of personal experience. In addition, teenagers are often emotionally volatile, and they are still growing and developing their sense of identity and self-worth. That process can be a fragile one, especially when they’ve barely begun it. It’s a very different place to be in life than someone who is in their twenties.
Bjorn makes me want to punch him because of personal experiences, because he doesn’t seem to be taking Maria’s inexperience into account, because any person who jumps into another person’s pants immediately creeps me out, and because he’s being horrible to Johan.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I think I agree with the anti-Bjorn sentiment. Maybe it’s not or shouldn’t be illegal simply for an older person to have consensual sex with a sexually mature teenager, but I still read his actions as predatory. She’s young and drunk and I’m guessing not that experienced with sexuality so the attention I’m sure is quite exciting for her, but he had his hands in her pants waaaay too fast.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
I’m American, and I hope my comment didn’t look like one of the ‘freaking’ out people, I just know a sleeze bag when I see him, Maria is hardly 100% together right now and he’s totally taking advantage of that. I’d say that even if she was his same age.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I think I’ll support my country; America’s older population may be prudish on the whole, but I don’t think we’re quite as prudish as you might think. Yeah, there is DEFINITELY a double-standard gender-wise, but I think we’re really close to resolving that. And I don’t have a problem with sexuality, but I live in Maine, and I see the repurcussions of uninformed sex every day. We have a seperate school in our district JUST for teenage moms. And most of these girls are living at, just below or above the poverty line. That’s why I think it’s best to think seriously before having sex, using protection, etc. If you have sex before you’re ready, there can be psychological problems as well. (don’t ask me exactly what, we haven’t gotten there in psych 101 yet. ;D) But I was taught the proper “penis” and “vagina.” And I don’t think you should be married before having sex or anything. Just informed. And we have GSAs and everything. Americans aren’t so bad!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
I find it rather fascinating and tragic that a young man such as Björn could be considered a pedophile and even jailed for a mutual relationship with a sexually mature young lady. I think some cultures are more afraid of female sexuality than others.
But is she mature? The past few pages, I think, are not demonstrating the kind of scenario you are describing. I don’t think kids that young can handle being sexually active, especially not with someone nearly ten years their senior.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I don’t really know that an American would be more offended by a man taking advantage of a drunk minor than any European, etc. person. Then again, I’m not intimately (no pun intended) acquainted with the differences between the American attitude toward sex compared with the European attitude, nor do I understand how quickly the average person matures sexually (I know eighteen was a good age for me, so that was pretty convenient).
Personally, unless Bjorn just can’t fight her off in the next comic, then he’s still registering as a skeaze in my book.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:02 am
orudish, I guess?: I mean mature physically.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:44 am
how old is bjorn in this flashback? sorry if this has been addressed.
first time i’ve posted, but i got hooked a couple of weeks ago (through the american elf forum) and really love your work. keep it up.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:49 am
I think this whole topic is a fascinating look at cultural differences. Technically, looking at tomorrow’s strip won’t be illegal (at least in the UK and US) as it’s drawn, and there are no concrete laws about that. However, it does make possible publication in either country difficult, as it may be seen as an “obscene”.
However, having said that, Alan Moore’s Lost Girls was recently published in the UK, which features drawn underage sex between teenagers and adults. Not to say it wasn’t met with questions and retailing problems, but it was published and has not yet been banned under any obscene publication laws as of yet. But of course, you can look that up on Wikipedia.
It’s very hard to tell, as I say, as Rene is not drawing the scene to titulate or as hardcore pornography (as with Lost Girls), but rather to tell the story and reveal to us exactly went down with Bjorn in her past. As we can tell from Rene’s pre-page spoilers, they’re gonna have sex, and I think Rene believes it’s important that we’re witness to the exact nature of that first encounter. I personally would approach it differently (maybe imply rather than show), but not too differently (as our age of consent is only a year later). But yes. Intriguing stuff.
Good job, as always, Rene, but Bjorn is definitely still creepy. Consent laws aside, the mental ages between the two are what creep me out the most. As others have mentioned, these two characters think very differently because of the age gap, and I don’t think Maria has matured enough mentally to make such a decision.
But I guess it’s all about perspective.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Also take into consideration that a lot of people frown upon what Bjorn is doing because Maria is drunk, and not because of her age. I don’t know about Sweden, but some countries have very harsh laws against sex with someone who is intoxicated - basically, if they’re not mentally capable of consenting, then the sex is not consensual and thus tantamount to rape. Of course, please don’t take my comments as me knocking on your comic. Bjorn, despicable as he may be, is portrayed in a very real fashion, as are nearly every other character. Like I said in an earlier comment, I despise or loathe every character in this comic, because they’re portrayed as real people who do stupid things and hurt themselves or the ones they love.
I’d also like to know how Bjorn managed to get his hand in there so deftly. Maria must not have been wearing very tight pants, because the last time I tried slipping my hands into a 15-year-old girl’s sexually mature and consenting woman’s pants, I had to use both hands to unbutton and unzip in order to make some room. Bjorn is a master of the art, apparently.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:00 am
Hm, inte helt förvånande… Och som Koosh Koosh! sa innan, det är den mentala åldern som skrämmer mest. Och det faktum att Björn verkar nästan ha väntat sig att hon skulle komma, baserat utifrån hans ansiktsuttryck i sista rutan.
Det är intressant att se Johan utvecklas till mer än att bara gå runt med ett ständigt uttryck av surhet, men det är det bästa med den här serien, den är (har säkert blivit sagt förut) väldigt likt livet självt, man vet inte vad som kommer hända och det var länge sen man läste en serie med samma förväntan.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:12 am
Maria is basically a big pile of Loveline callers.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:35 am
docfrance:
Actually, in Sweden there’s been a problem considering rape during the victim being drunk/asleep or such. It has been seen as a different crime, called “sexuall usage” or something. Although nowadays the rape-trials has finaly become a better.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Björn here is 23 in this strip. Maria has just turned 15. So the age gap is considerable. I can say that Björn was not expecting Maria to come back, but he wasn’t surprised either. At the time of Björns “fingering”, Maria had sobered up considerably. I guess perhaps I should have shown that time had passed in a better way. This is my fault as a comic writer. I thought the guitar lesson would have done that as she was playing quite well and no longer had little bubbles swarming around her head. I actually love almost all my characters, even Björn, despite their faults.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:44 am
I thought we had established she was no longer under the influence.. Drunk bubbles appear to have disappeared.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:43 am
Rene, I think it was made very clear that Maria sobered up somewhat. Bjorn might be taking advantage of the fact that she’s a stupid teenager, but it’s certainly not “sexual usage of a drunken/sleeping person” (as someone implied).
Here is what bugs me a bit about some of the comments: Bjorn might be acting like an asshole, and I personally don’t think he’s doing the right thing, BUT there’s a giant leap from disliking someone, and reacting like he’s a pedophile.
That’s what it runs down to, I think. Quite a few commenters here are worked up about him so much as if he was an actual child molester. However according to my standards (and most European laws) he’s just acting like a prick.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:50 am
Koosh Koosh!: Once again, you come off as way smarter and cooler than me in comments. I don’t like you anymore.
Rene: Don’t sweat it. People think and interpret differently, especially visuals, and alot of your cues were rather subtle. Some people need more obvious signals and cues, while others will pick up on things you didn’t even intend. But you can’t slow down to explain EVERY LITTLE DETAIL in a web comic, or you won’t get anywhere in the story.
>:| And I’m kinda looking forward to the sex scenes. Maybe I’m a perv. Or you just draw really nice, natural looking sex scenes. (Answer: both) But yes. I wait eagerly. *munches on popcorn*
Seriously, I have my own stupid comic I wanna make eventually with so much teenage drama and sex and every time I practice sex scenes, it looks like porn. But your stuff is so nice and I dunno, ‘casual.’
I will continue to love and hate you while I wait for smut.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:00 am
Ooooomigoodness! I don’t think your sex scenes are smut. They’re… natural, like Mandiiv says. Said. Whatever. ;P
Anyway, I’m uncomfortable with hero-worship, but RENE YOU ARE AWESOME. I think it had to be said.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:04 am
It’s clear they’re all sober. No bubbles over head.
As for fear of female sexuality, that’s a non issue in my book. I’d be disturbed all the same if the ages and actions were reversed.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:45 am
My problem is it’s “Anders Loves Maria” not “Bjorn Bangs Maria”. Anders may be a dick but he’s still my boy and that imminent revenge sex is going to be so much worse if they’re old lovers - especially if he was her first. Anders isn’t perfect but jealousy doesn’t care about hypocrisy - it still sucks.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:48 am
and Johan kicks ass.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:03 am
I was in a VERY similar situation when I was 15; however, nothing happened because shortly after I figured out this guy was really interested with me, he shipped off to the navy, and I never saw him again
February 7th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Being an American my opinion on the age difference matter has always been regarded as kind of goofy, but it seems to be more in line with European cultural ethics. The way I see it is that as you get older, age gap tends to matter less and less. Case in point: My uncle is 71, and my aunt 62, and no one bats an eye at that age difference, but everyone I know would be singing a different if they were 24 and 15 (which, by the way, is when they met, when my uncle was a GI in Vietnam). So my question is: Why does it matter so much in younger years if it’s going to be completely irrelevant 20 years down the road?
Does it have to be that people must be in identical phases of life in order to have sex together? If so, who the hell are we to judge when one phase starts and another phase ends? Especially when maturity is frequently totally unrelated to age.
Furthermore, as the world gets more and more unified, new phases of life seem to keep popping out of the woodwork. It used to be, you were a child, then you went to school, then you went to work and you were and adult. Then it was, you’re a child, then a teenager, then an adult, then it was you’re a child a ‘tweenager, a teenager, then an adult, and just yesterday someone suggested that at the age of 21, I am not an adult, but an adultescent, some crazy pre-adult stage where I don’t bear the full responsibilities of life.
I was totally baffled mind you, as I pay all my own bills, tuition and costs of living and am fully independent of my family; but I was amazed by the concept that there is a new perceived age range in the social consciousness.
So in short I’m going to stick with the comment I posted for the last comic: “Mack on Bjorn. Mack on.”
February 7th, 2008 at 7:25 am
Okay, Johan rocks. Seriously.
But Mariaaaa. Does Björn like you as much as you like him, at all?
February 7th, 2008 at 7:27 am
High 5 Brandon.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:04 am
Maybe I have to point out that my text about rape doesn’t have anything to do with my opinions in this comic. I just tought docfrance’s comment “I don’t know about Sweden, but some countries have very harsh laws against sex with someone who is intoxicated” was interesting since that has been a problem in Sweden.
Considering the comic, I feel alot for Maria and her decisions, (wich I think really are hers, she’s not some stupid bimbo) And I still love Björn.
(excuse me if my english sucks, barely got sleep tonight)
February 7th, 2008 at 8:10 am
I understood you Stef!
February 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Does Anders even know that Maria lost it to Bjorn? I think not if he is asking who’s Bjorn after he answers the phone…
Brandon, you are awesome, I think I love you. But not in a weird creepy I am going to stalk you way.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
I don’t know if I was misunderstood in my comment or what, but apparently some people took me saying that most 15 year-olds rebel as meaning that everyone acted like Maria at 15. Not true. I was very much like Maria at that age, but my cousin of the same age though that wearing a skirt that came up to her knees was “racy and rebellious.” It’s all in the mind. That’s all I was saying. At that age, most people start pushing their boundaries.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I’m quite sceptical to this perceived difference in attitude towards sex and sexuality between Americans and Swedes/Europeans. I wouldn’t have been the least surprised if the views on the subject expressed by professed Americans had been expressed by Swedes. Not counting the moral conservatives, I would say that American and Swedish views on sex are quite similar on average. The big difference between the US and Sweden is that there are a lot more moral conservatives in the US. However, I think it would be safe to say that if any of them ever read ALM they would have boycotted it a long time ago.
On a side note: Contrary to what was stated earlier, taking sexual advantage of someone who is unconscious, asleep, intoxicated etc is considered rape by current Swedish law. There used to be a difference in terminology but it was still illegal. However, I don’t think Maria is intoxicated enough for it to fall into that category.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Even if there is a sex scene in the next comic her loss of virginity might be interrupted. Say by Johan jumping through the window and punching Bjorn.
Loving the comic; started reading via the Overcompensating link and I’ve just started re-reading the pages to look at the comments. You have as interesting an audience as you do story Rene.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Why am I so protective about Maria? Maybe she reminds me a little…
And there she goes!
(I hope Björn don’t break her heart…)
February 7th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
John, I can’t say I agree. The variety of anti-sexual standards in America are a staple of our cultural norms, for better or worse. The popularity of sexual imagery, conversation, and innuendo in commercial enterprises exists not because sex is a perfectly acceptable facet of human expression, but rather because it’s been so stifled that the entire sexually repressed population vaguely yearns for that missing outlet. The peddlers of cheapened sexual icons are so bold in their craft only because they see how greedily Americans embrace it, not because of any enlightened sense of sexual balance.
Despite that being the state of the mainstream, there are still rural communities in America where female “minors” are having long-term sexual relationships with much older men. It’s covered up (just like polygamy, incest, and other taboo behavior), but it’s a very, very old custom that’s still alive in some places where local law doesn’t care about the national taboos, and doesn’t care about enforcing them.
Bottom line: America needs to get laid, and then NOT lie about it in the morning.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Voortman: I’m not questioning what you’re saying. My point is that the mainstream society in Sweden is not as liberal towards sex as it might often be portrayed internationally. Some people seemed to be under the impression that what is currently happening in ALM wouldn’t raise any eyebrows in Sweden and therefore felt they needed to excuse their sentiments by stating their nationality.